If you’re an overclocker who’s pondering whether to get the Ryzen 7 5800X3D or not, the decision has just gotten much simpler, as AMD’s Robert Hallock has corroborated previous claims of the new 8C/16T chip not supporting traditional overclocking. When asked as to whether this is a hard lock or if AMD was simply providing guidance to motherboard manufacturers, Hallock clarified that it is most definitely a hard lock. “It is locked. Locked.” The Ryzen 7 5800X3D is scheduled to hit shelves on April 20 for $449.
Ryzen 6000 Zen3+ Deep Dive And More With AMD’s Robert Hallock – LIVE! (HotHardware)
So as people know, this is our first CPU with 3D V-Cache technology. Our first 3D vertically stacked processor. And that packaging technology in our space has different voltage and frequency scaling that people may be accustomed to. So I think on the desktop parts, you’ve seen us ship parts that range up to 1.45 or even 1.5 volts in boost.
And that is not the limit for the 3D V-Cache technology. The voltage limit on that is more like 1.3 to 1.35. So we are not going to allow overclocking CPU, core frequency overclocking, or core voltage adjustment because out of the box, the design of the chip already uses and ranges up to that voltage and frequency limit. On the other hand, fabric overclocking remains enabled, memory overclocking remains enabled, and we know that our parts get the most benefit from that anyway.
And we know that a 5800X part without overclocking is shocking. But at the same time, at the same time, you know, we work very hard to maximize our performance out of the box for people. And this is a very new thing we’re trying with this 3D stacking thing. Especially in the consumer space that’s never seen it before.
And we have a tough choice to make. Do we wait for that technology to mature a little bit on voltage and frequency tolerance, or do we go right now because the […] technological benefits are so good and people are always asking us, just give me the best gaming kit for my money. I mean, that’s what I want.
So we made the choice. We’re going to ship it. It doesn’t support CPU frequency overclocking. And that’s why because the technology just doesn’t scale yet. Higher, and in time it will. And when it does, we’ll bring overclocking back.
Discussion (6 replies)
Join Discussion →Ryzen hasn't really supported overclocking for a few generations. PBO provides the best results.
Overclocking individual CCX's can yield better results than PBO, but its a long and tiresome process to achieve results and even then, there are no guarantees.
Isn't there a third party program that works with PBO to auto overclock your Ryzen CPU's. I don't need a few mhz to get that but I seem to remember it's out there.
There is. I can't remember what its called, but yes. That does work pretty well.
For Intel there's XTU, a surprisingly useful program if only limited in its approach to voltage control - or at least, how poorly it seems to handle motherboards not respecting the voltage that their CPUs request. Makes refining overclocks more arduous.
Be nice to have something at least that useful if not more so for AMD!
It's worth noting that while PBO is an important part of being able to get the most out of a Zen 2/3 CPU (particularly with curve optimizer tweaking), AMD also officially considers PBO overclocking. As such it's likely that neither manual overclocking or PBO will be supported with this 5800X3D SKU. It'll almost certainly be locked to the default 142W PPT, with 95A TDC and 140A EDC values.
Adjusting global voltage (such as an offset undervolt) may still be possible, but results from doing so are typically very small as you're limited by the stability of the weakest core. In this case, it could potentially be held back by the additional 3D cache TSVs as well.
Robert did mention maintaining FCLK and memory tweaking (which, along with voltage offsets, tend to be "front page" adjustments, and not found in the AMD Overclocking submenu), which is good. Hopefully the addition of the 3D cache does not make FCLK adjustments more sensitive - if it does, the normal ~1866-1900MHz sweet spot may see a reduction. Ditto for the IMC still being capable of solid 3600-3800MT performance, as on the normal SKUs.
Fingers crossed.
My hope is that at some point soon after launch, whether intentionally or otherwise, it becomes possible to make these manual adjustments - even if it isn't in the best interest of most people as far as any potential performance improvements go. Perhaps leave them accessible through tuning software, rather than at the BIOS level.
Simply having the ability to explore the architectural relationships between voltage planes, frequencies and thermal/power management should lead to a better understanding of their stacked 3D cache design, pinpoint strengths and weaknesses, edge cases and ultimately allow for better feedback when it comes to potential future high performance products. The enthusiast community can be a right pain in the ass, but it's also effectively a large scale volunteer QA team. Take advantage of it.