Apple’s electric car is no longer happening, according to sources who say that the tech giant’s decade-long effort in building one has now been canceled and how some of the teams involved will be moving to Apple’s AI division to work on generative AI projects instead. This marks an end to a plan that began in 2014, a year in which Apple embarked on the development of what was supposed to be a fully autonomous EV.
Highlights:
- The 2,000 employees working on the project were surprised by the announcement
- Chief Operating Officer Jeff Williams and Kevin Lynch, a vice president, told them that the project was “winding down”
- Many employees are being moved to the Special Projects Group (SPG), Apple’s AI division for generative AI projects
- Others will be able to apply for jobs elsewhere at Apple, while others will be laid off
- Apple imagined the car being priced at around $100,000
What the car could have looked like, according to fan-made trailers:
Bloomberg noted:
The decision to ultimately wind down the project is a bombshell for the company, ending a multibillion-dollar effort that would have vaulted Apple into a whole new industry. …
…the project struggled nearly from the start, with Apple changing the team’s leadership and strategy several times. Lynch and Williams took over the undertaking a few years ago — following the departure of Doug Field, now a senior executive at Ford Motor Co.
Join the discussion in The FPS Review Forums...
Discussion (19 replies)
Join Discussion →Apple is now chasing trends rather than setting them. This will end poorly ...
the only thing Samsung/Apple/Google need to do is agree on a universal mount for cars that will tie in a "head unit" easily. Letting end users upgrade the tech experience in their vehicles with any of their provided hardware with no need to spend 100's on a installer. I imagine a world where we can get a head unit for our car that will enable new features, integrate with our android or apple devices seamlessly and be a win for consumers who are 'tricked' into spending big thousands on these custom head units and upgrading them every few years. Heck include a SIM subscription to your carrier as well. Tie it all in!
"Grimlakin, post: 82773, member: 215" wrote:the only thing Samsung/Apple/Google need to do is agree on a universal mount for cars that will tie in a "head unit" easily.
Not sure how that’s too different from Android Auto / Carplay. And my latest 2023 car has 2 SIM cards in it - one for Ford to do there telematics and snoopIng, and a second I could pay to activate a hotspot in the car — just in case I wanted to use AA / Carplay but didn’t have a cell phone for it
"Grimlakin, post: 82773, member: 215" wrote:the only thing Samsung/Apple/Google need to do is agree on a universal mount for cars that will tie in a "head unit" easily. Letting end users upgrade the tech experience in their vehicles with any of their provided hardware with no need to spend 100's on a installer. I imagine a world where we can get a head unit for our car that will enable new features, integrate with our android or apple devices seamlessly and be a win for consumers who are 'tricked' into spending big thousands on these custom head units and upgrading them every few years. Heck include a SIM subscription to your carrier as well. Tie it all in!
great, while you are at it, include subscribtions to every service imaginable and put even basic features behing a paywall. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Apple was doing what ???
Ouch, wasn't it "leaaked" not long ago a launch year and all?
I guess that was the last test balloon?
Apple EV is canceled?! OH MY GOOOOOSSHH!!! What a complete and utter surprise! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
I never ever imagined this would come to pass! Wooooow, who could have possibly seen this coming?! I am utterly astonished and flabbergasted!
It's just plain unimaginable! I was thinking surely this was gonna be the next Mac, iPod, or iPhone! Apple seemed so serious and focused on it.
It just does NOT make any sense! Very unexpected!
Apparently EVs are not selling too well.
I think one of the big reasons is lack of reparability by 3rd party means or by owner. If I can help it, no mechanic of any sort has touched my cars in a good 20 years.
If you know any Tesla owner you know its bs the no repair no maintenance supposed advantage, you also know you are stuck with their service in the 1000s of dollars, forget it if it touches " sensors".
Its a mess. Its a HUGE risk to go electric and have it fail whatever out of warranty. Sure, ice car also have huge risks in terms of dead engine or transmission, but even those you can go used/ salvage and such things. I know ice cars, and its just not comparable in my understanding. I know the jerks at the auto companies are trying to make ice car repair harder, and are larding up cars with the same sensors and crap, but still even new ice cars, ev are just worse.
"Uvilla, post: 82838, member: 397" wrote:If I can help it, no mechanic of any sort has touched my cars in a good 20 years.
Very nice!
"Uvilla, post: 82838, member: 397" wrote:Apparently EVs are not selling too well.
So this doesn't quite paint the full picture
If you look at just raw car sales numbers - EVs are selling fairly well. They sold more EVs last year than the year before, and are on track to sell more EVs this year than last.
So people are out there buying EVs. I think they make sense for a lot of cases, but I don't see a complete wholesale replacement of ICE engines (at least on the timeline some folks want), because they just aren't there yet.
That said - the issue is that the car manufacturers ramped up EV production like crazy - some going so far as announcing they were dropping ICE entirely, or swapping entire lines over to EV. They significantly overestimated the demand curve and there is an EV glut. Which is where you keep hearing the news about EVs selling poorly and stacking up on lots. Huge investments they made into EVs aren't paying off, or at least aren't paying off yet. EVs are stacking up on lots, but compared to historical sales, they are selling quite well - just not as well as the manufacturers predicted.
It doesn't help that the charging infrastructure, and electrical infrastructure in general, have a long way to go to be able to sustain the current EV fleet alone, nonwithstanding the significant growth curve that some people want to see. Only a few car manufacturers were also in the charging network game, but one doesn't work without the other.
"Brian_B, post: 82849, member: 96" wrote:So people are out there buying EVs. I think they make sense for a lot of cases, but I don't see a complete wholesale replacement of ICE engines (at least on the timeline some folks want), because they just aren't there yet.
I can't forsee the future, but currently where I live as of 2029 you wont be able to buy a new fossil fuelded car anymore. there will still be a transition period for the 2nd hand market and a lot of countries in Europe will follow suit give or take a couple ,years.
The main caveat is that the prices should come down more for EV's to make it feasable, I know that tesla is working on a cheaper entry level one so we may get there.
"Denpepe, post: 82851, member: 284" wrote:The main caveat is that the prices should come down more for EV's to make it feasable, I know that tesla is working on a cheaper entry level one so we may get there.
This is true too.
Although I don't think that's what necessarily is holding back EV adoption, at least in the US. The average new car price in the US is $47,400 right now, which is all cars (EVs are about 7% of new cars sold right now). The average price for just an EV is $53,800. Many of those are eligible for a tax credit of up to $7,500 (not all though), and that new price does not include the credit claim - so with that, it puts the average price of an EV right in line with all the rest of the new cars sold.
So, at least for new car buyers - price isn't really the obstacle.
I see two bigger obstacles
The used market is huge. Most people don't buy new cars, they are crazy expensive. The used market is much larger than the new market - by a margin of about 3:1. And the used EV market is ... full of pitfalls. Sure, EVs have fewer moving parts and are less mechanically complicated and a whole host of things that should help improve their resale value -- except the battery. If that battery is shot, it can cost as much or more to replace the battery as the used car did in the first place, effectively doubling the price. Warranties don't do a great job of covering the battery. Manufacturers haven't done a great job at being transparent about battery life. And consumers are confused about battery longevity. It's a huge question mark around used EVs, and many people aren't going to take that chance.
The second is charging. The aftermarket charging network in the US is still growing, and it has a long way to go before it's ubiquitous. That said, most EV manufacturers assume you will just charge it at home at night, and if you are doing a routine commute - that works out well, you very rarely need an aftermarket charging network. But what if you live in an apartment, or a dorm, or have a strict HOA and have to park out on the street? Not all of those places have chargers available, and even those that do right now only have a handful. Sure, a Level 1 charger can just plug into a regular wall socket. And that's an option, with an extension cord. But try that living in a condo downtown... and you'll go through a lot of chargers and extension cords as they just have a habit of walking away.
Batteries still have a long way to go, I'd say at least 20 years for better range, power, recharge cycles, recharge times, et al. Electric motors are pretty much as good as they are gonna get, unless something revolutionary comes out.
Even Hydrogen is still far away. I'm hoping ALIENS will finally gives us the technology to make the best potential fuel become a reality. You know that little fuel/oxidant combo we call WATER...
So all the talk about EVs aside - I couldn't believe Apple was jumping into this in the first place - not dissimilar to many others I am sure.
Yes - modern cars are more computer than car. And EVs are especially so. But Apple is at it's heart a consumer electronics / software company. Cars are not consumer electronics, and I would say never should be treated as such, as they can easily kill people.
And cars are a heavily regulated marketplace, which isn't something Apple has never played in. Very few companies can successfully break into that market -- it can be done, and if anyone has the resources to do it, it would be Apple, but if I were still a shareholder I would be asking why the company is straying so far from their core competency to do this.
Charging infrastructure needs some massive uplift before I dive down that rabbit hole. Why would I spend a ton of money on a fancy car that I cannot (easily or without serious forward planning) take on long road trips?
If I were buying today, I'm looking at hybrid. But I plan on driving my car until 100k+ unless some butthead makes the decision for me in the form of a collision.
If I was still doing the hour each way daily commute (I don't miss those days AT ALL), EV makes more sense since you're not burning gas sitting in traffic.
Discussion (19 replies)
Join Discussion →Apple is now chasing trends rather than setting them. This will end poorly ...
the only thing Samsung/Apple/Google need to do is agree on a universal mount for cars that will tie in a "head unit" easily. Letting end users upgrade the tech experience in their vehicles with any of their provided hardware with no need to spend 100's on a installer. I imagine a world where we can get a head unit for our car that will enable new features, integrate with our android or apple devices seamlessly and be a win for consumers who are 'tricked' into spending big thousands on these custom head units and upgrading them every few years. Heck include a SIM subscription to your carrier as well. Tie it all in!
Not sure how that’s too different from Android Auto / Carplay. And my latest 2023 car has 2 SIM cards in it - one for Ford to do there telematics and snoopIng, and a second I could pay to activate a hotspot in the car — just in case I wanted to use AA / Carplay but didn’t have a cell phone for it
great, while you are at it, include subscribtions to every service imaginable and put even basic features behing a paywall. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Apple was doing what ???
Ouch, wasn't it "leaaked" not long ago a launch year and all?
I guess that was the last test balloon?
Apple EV is canceled?! OH MY GOOOOOSSHH!!! What a complete and utter surprise! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
I never ever imagined this would come to pass! Wooooow, who could have possibly seen this coming?! I am utterly astonished and flabbergasted!
It's just plain unimaginable! I was thinking surely this was gonna be the next Mac, iPod, or iPhone! Apple seemed so serious and focused on it.
It just does NOT make any sense! Very unexpected!
Apparently EVs are not selling too well.
I think one of the big reasons is lack of reparability by 3rd party means or by owner. If I can help it, no mechanic of any sort has touched my cars in a good 20 years.
If you know any Tesla owner you know its bs the no repair no maintenance supposed advantage, you also know you are stuck with their service in the 1000s of dollars, forget it if it touches " sensors".
Its a mess. Its a HUGE risk to go electric and have it fail whatever out of warranty. Sure, ice car also have huge risks in terms of dead engine or transmission, but even those you can go used/ salvage and such things. I know ice cars, and its just not comparable in my understanding. I know the jerks at the auto companies are trying to make ice car repair harder, and are larding up cars with the same sensors and crap, but still even new ice cars, ev are just worse.
Very nice!
So this doesn't quite paint the full picture
If you look at just raw car sales numbers - EVs are selling fairly well. They sold more EVs last year than the year before, and are on track to sell more EVs this year than last.
So people are out there buying EVs. I think they make sense for a lot of cases, but I don't see a complete wholesale replacement of ICE engines (at least on the timeline some folks want), because they just aren't there yet.
That said - the issue is that the car manufacturers ramped up EV production like crazy - some going so far as announcing they were dropping ICE entirely, or swapping entire lines over to EV. They significantly overestimated the demand curve and there is an EV glut. Which is where you keep hearing the news about EVs selling poorly and stacking up on lots. Huge investments they made into EVs aren't paying off, or at least aren't paying off yet. EVs are stacking up on lots, but compared to historical sales, they are selling quite well - just not as well as the manufacturers predicted.
It doesn't help that the charging infrastructure, and electrical infrastructure in general, have a long way to go to be able to sustain the current EV fleet alone, nonwithstanding the significant growth curve that some people want to see. Only a few car manufacturers were also in the charging network game, but one doesn't work without the other.
I can't forsee the future, but currently where I live as of 2029 you wont be able to buy a new fossil fuelded car anymore. there will still be a transition period for the 2nd hand market and a lot of countries in Europe will follow suit give or take a couple ,years.
The main caveat is that the prices should come down more for EV's to make it feasable, I know that tesla is working on a cheaper entry level one so we may get there.
This is true too.
Although I don't think that's what necessarily is holding back EV adoption, at least in the US. The average new car price in the US is $47,400 right now, which is all cars (EVs are about 7% of new cars sold right now). The average price for just an EV is $53,800. Many of those are eligible for a tax credit of up to $7,500 (not all though), and that new price does not include the credit claim - so with that, it puts the average price of an EV right in line with all the rest of the new cars sold.
So, at least for new car buyers - price isn't really the obstacle.
I see two bigger obstacles
The used market is huge. Most people don't buy new cars, they are crazy expensive. The used market is much larger than the new market - by a margin of about 3:1. And the used EV market is ... full of pitfalls. Sure, EVs have fewer moving parts and are less mechanically complicated and a whole host of things that should help improve their resale value -- except the battery. If that battery is shot, it can cost as much or more to replace the battery as the used car did in the first place, effectively doubling the price. Warranties don't do a great job of covering the battery. Manufacturers haven't done a great job at being transparent about battery life. And consumers are confused about battery longevity. It's a huge question mark around used EVs, and many people aren't going to take that chance.
The second is charging. The aftermarket charging network in the US is still growing, and it has a long way to go before it's ubiquitous. That said, most EV manufacturers assume you will just charge it at home at night, and if you are doing a routine commute - that works out well, you very rarely need an aftermarket charging network. But what if you live in an apartment, or a dorm, or have a strict HOA and have to park out on the street? Not all of those places have chargers available, and even those that do right now only have a handful. Sure, a Level 1 charger can just plug into a regular wall socket. And that's an option, with an extension cord. But try that living in a condo downtown... and you'll go through a lot of chargers and extension cords as they just have a habit of walking away.
Batteries still have a long way to go, I'd say at least 20 years for better range, power, recharge cycles, recharge times, et al. Electric motors are pretty much as good as they are gonna get, unless something revolutionary comes out.
Even Hydrogen is still far away. I'm hoping ALIENS will finally gives us the technology to make the best potential fuel become a reality. You know that little fuel/oxidant combo we call WATER...
So all the talk about EVs aside - I couldn't believe Apple was jumping into this in the first place - not dissimilar to many others I am sure.
Yes - modern cars are more computer than car. And EVs are especially so. But Apple is at it's heart a consumer electronics / software company. Cars are not consumer electronics, and I would say never should be treated as such, as they can easily kill people.
And cars are a heavily regulated marketplace, which isn't something Apple has never played in. Very few companies can successfully break into that market -- it can be done, and if anyone has the resources to do it, it would be Apple, but if I were still a shareholder I would be asking why the company is straying so far from their core competency to do this.
Charging infrastructure needs some massive uplift before I dive down that rabbit hole. Why would I spend a ton of money on a fancy car that I cannot (easily or without serious forward planning) take on long road trips?
If I were buying today, I'm looking at hybrid. But I plan on driving my car until 100k+ unless some butthead makes the decision for me in the form of a collision.
If I was still doing the hour each way daily commute (I don't miss those days AT ALL), EV makes more sense since you're not burning gas sitting in traffic.